Włodzimierz Redzioch talks to the Franciscan tertiary Angela Musolesi, for many years a collaborator of Fr. Gabriele Amortha

Much has been said lately about the general superior of the Jesus Society - Father Arthur Sosa Abascal, in relation to his controversial statements. In August this year in an interview with the journalist of the monthly magazine "Tempi" he said that the devil does not exist. That "he is not a person. This is the way evil is present in human life. Good and evil endure constantly in human consciousness, and we have ways to show them. (...) Symbols are part of reality, and the devil exists as a symbolic reality, not as a personalized reality. " However, the Catechism of the Catholic Church and the Magisterium say the opposite. So, no wonder that this statement caused a lot of negative reactions. The International Association of Exorcists (IEA) responded to Father Sosa's statements - he issued a statement in which he explains that, according to church doctrine and experience of exorcists, the words of Father Sosa are untrue. His statements are all the more incomprehensible when we consider that Francis, also a Jesuit, regularly speaks of a devil from the beginning of his pontificate. Already in the first homily, which he delivered during the Holy Mass. On March 14, 2013 (Sistine Chapel), he said: "The thought of Léon Bloy comes to my mind:" Somebody who does not pray to the Lord, prays to the devil "- when Christ is not confessed, the worldliness of the devil, worldliness of Satan is confessed" .

I am talking about the devil with Angela Musolesi, a Franciscan tertiary who worked with Fr. Gabriel Amorthem, who died in 2016, one of the most famous exorcists of our time. Sister Angela specializes in the mission of liberating prayer according to the instructions of Fr. Amorth. She wrote three books with him and founded the "Sons of Light" movement (I figli della luce).

W. R.

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WŁODZIMIERZ REDZIOCH: - Why is the devil not an ordinary symbol?

ANGELA MUSOLESI: - We, praying for release - with and without priests - are fighting the devil "in the field", so we know that Father Sosa is wrong! Denying the existence of the devil as a thinking being, an angel with his own mind and personality, who at the beginning of the time rebelled against God the Father and drags thousands of demons with him, means negating the doctrine of the Church and Revelation, which God has given people, but above all contradicts the Gospel. I remember that one time Father Amorth told me: "When I asked John Paul II what he thought about those who did not believe in the devil as a being, the Pope replied to me:" Somebody who does not believe in the devil does not believe in the Gospel "".

- What do the Gospels say about the devil?

- We must remember the words and episodes from Jesus' life. To whom did Jesus say, "Keep silent and get out of him!" (Cf. Lk 4, 31-37 and Mk 1, 23-26)? To the symbol? To the mental concept? How can you claim that the devil was not present in that man as a real being? The Gospel continues that people were very surprised and said among themselves: "With authority and power he even commands the unclean spirits, and they leave." The next episode, one of many, is healing the boy. The Gospel says: "Jesus commanded him severely, and the evil spirit left him. From then on the boy regained his health ”(Mt 17, 18). It is clear that Jesus did not command the symbol. Saint John reminds us that Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil (cf. 1 Jn 3: 8), and Saint Paul writes in the book of Hebrews that Jesus came to defeat the devil (cf. Heb 2:14).

- Do demons speak during exorcisms and prayers for release?

- In the books I have published so far, first of all, in the three ones written with Fr. Amorthem, various specific situations that took place during the exorcisms of Fr. Amorth, there are also quoted sentences that were spoken by legions of evil. Once during a prayer for liberation, Satan's legions said, "We were all under the Cross." Another case: during the prayer for release of the priest's words: "Jesus has already defeated you all", the devil responded - he lowered his head and said: "Yes, it's true, we know it." I would also like to recall an event that took place in the Marian shrine, when Lucifer appeared during a short prayer for release. I told him to leave and I said a sentence that in itself means nothing: "You're dead!" He immediately replied: "I am a ghost, I will never die!" I was stunned. Another time, when I called the Holy Spirit, singing with power over someone, the demon shouted to me: "Ah, stop it, it hurts!"

- Is it true that sometimes 'possessed' objects come out?

- Yes it's true. During exorcisms, Fr. Amorth's mouth was filled with crosses, stones and nails. It goes without saying that people did not swallow them themselves. The devil did it. Once, even when praying for release from humans, cockroaches came out.

- Father Amorth had to face similar problems during the post-Conciliar period, when in some Catholic circles the existence of the devil was denied. What would Fr. Amorth say now when Father Sosa expresses the same doubts?

- Father Amorth would probably say that it is the fault of materialism. We have lost awareness that a human being is a person who is constantly tempted by the devil. As for Sosa, it can be said that he has no experience and no practical sense in this area - if he came to see what we were doing, he would understand that it is not madness or invention.

- Father Amorth criticized the new Ritual for exorcists, apparently also prepared by people without practical experience ...

- In the preparation phase of the new Ritual with Fr. Amorthem was contacted by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, who called him twice to ask for clarification. But you can see that the people responsible for writing the Ritual did not take it into account. Father Amorth stated that the new Ritual was ineffective, and for this reason he always used the old Ritual, written in Latin.

- Speaking of Latin. In the old mass in Latin there was a prayer to St. Archangel Michael - this prayer was removed from the new Mass. What did Fr. Amorth think of praying to St. Archangel Michael?

- Father Amorth always advised me to say no, even every day. Another thing he advised was to entrust children to the Immaculate Heart of Mary to while the woman was still pregnant. He did it because it happened to him that when he was speaking to the devil, he heard the words: "They gave me this child before he was born." There are people who sacrifice children to Satan before they are born.

- Father Amorth also appreciated the laity in the fight against the devil ...

- He was open to lay people. In the last years before his death, given the lack of exorcists, he said that secular prayer groups were welcome. Our "Sons of Light" movement ( is just an example of this secular commitment.

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They said ...

"In the face of the situation of the modern Church, we have the impression that the smoke of Satan has penetrated certain crevices into the temple of God. We see doubt, uncertainty, relativism, anxiety, dissatisfaction and questioning. We no longer trust the Church, but we trust the first better secular prophet who speaks to us from the columns of one of the dailies or as a spokesman for one of the social movements (...) without thinking about the fact that we are already in possession (... ...) real life, that we are his masters. Doubt has crept into our consciences through windows that should be open to light. Criticism and doubt arose from science, which was called to provide us with truths that not only do not distance us from God, but incline us to zealous seeking Him and worshipping Him. (...) Teaching has become a source of confusion and contradictions, sometimes absurd. (...) After the Council it was thought that the sun would shine over the history of the Church, but instead of the sun we have clouds, storms, darkness, search and uncertainty. We preach ecumenism, but we are increasingly separating ourselves. We widen the gap instead of covering it. How could this happen? An opposing force mixed up in it, whose name is the devil: this mysterious being, which he mentions in his Letter. Peter (1 Peter 5: 8-9). "

Paul VI, fragment of a homily from June 29, 1972.

"The existence of the devil is not an opinion, something to believe or not believe. Anyone who claims that the devil does not exist does not have full Catholic faith. (...) The presence of the devil (...) explains the dramatic state in which the world found itself, withering under the rule of the Evil ".

Card. Medina Estévez, prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments.


„Niedziela” 40/2019

Editor: Tygodnik Katolicki "Niedziela", ul. 3 Maja 12, 42-200 Czestochowa, Polska
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