TIME FOR OUR TESTIMONY
Wiesława Lewandowska talks with Beata Kempa about methods and results of acting of gender ideology promoters, political permission and social opposition
WIESŁAWA LEWANDOWSKA: - Among your many brave political actions , the last one has probably caused most critical remarks against you. Why did you decide to start an open war against the so-called gender ideologists?
BEATA KEMPA: - Because, in my opinion, they are obtrusively launching their ideology, and it was them who started a war against the whole society, and at least, this part of it which did not agree to destroying the basis of the traditional family. And this is an insidious, provoking war, full of traps. I and my cooperators have been receiving some worrying signals that in kindergartens some weird educational curriculums are being implemented. I collected particular information which became the basis of interpellation of Deputies to the minister of the national education. I asked if the ministry is familiar with the programs of the so-called kindergarten of equality and acknowledges them. It turned out that they are not. But, as it is seen, the programs can get into the education curriculums through the back door.
– And don’t they arouse any official objections?
– I think that in the best case the problem is not simply perceived but trivialized.
– Or, maybe, in the ministry or in the educational superintendent, this kind of enrichment of curriculums is positively perceived?
– The ministry and educational superintendents have a duty to provide children not only with good education and upbringing, but also safety, including the psychical one. Parents should know whom and what purpose they entrust their children to. Whereas, there is something happening about which they do not know or understand. For example, they are said that modernity and progress are based on sexualization of pre-school children. Therefore, I was glad that the ‘Letter of bishops’ described the implementation of the gender ideology as a danger for the traditional family. It aroused hysteria that the Church does not understand anything, that is old-fashioned and it is embarrassing in Europe….
– And you added salt to injury, transferring the problem onto the forum of the Sejm.
– I decided that appointing the parliamentary team ‘Stop to the gender ideology’ is essential in this situation. And, as it turned out earlier, the fight with the expansion of the gender ideology is being run in Poland by bottom-up appearing associations, many thinking people.
– The team is called ‘Stop to the gender ideology’ – so, its aim is not to discuss with its opponent?
– It is difficult to discuss with the opponent who is doing what he wants to, and mocks at everything else….We think that this ideology is simply harmful for the man. It degrades him, distorts the psyche (especially when it is implemented from the early years), destroys inter-human relationships. The team has existed only for a few weeks and many people and groups touched somehow by the ruthless promotion of the gender ideology are reporting to us, for example, students complaining about the gender indoctrination (and here it is not about the gender studies), to which they must agree in fear of the gender lobby at universities. One of students wrote to me that the opponents of gender are not allowed for a discussion, that they are controlled in their knowledge of only correct, only righteous set books. It reminds something, doesn’t it?
– In order to fight effectively with an illness, it is necessary to diagnose it well. How is the Sejm Team going to liquidate the expansion of the gender ideology?
– Although the phenomenon is dispersed, ambiguous and difficult to define, following tiny signs leading to a solution, we will try to diagnose the problem, describe methods of action, and, first of all, we intend to determine what means are used by groups and organizations implementing the gender ideology. If public means are used, we will try to present a map of the flow of these means. We want to gain this knowledge through interpellations of Deputies addressed to the minister of finances, minister of health, minister of education. For example, we already know that the program of the kindergarten of equality is being realized from the EU means. I think we will manage to define both the destructive power of this ideology, and the amount of material benefits, which particular people may gain thanks to this ideology. An important part of our action is going to be a talk with specialists – psychologists, teachers, methodologists – it is going to be really an important discussion on this issue. The Sejm is an excellent forum for this kind of debates and meetings.
– Many deputies think differently and criticize this kind of idea, mocking at ecclesiastical and rightist-conservative specialists.
– These are those who think that opponents of the gender ideology should be removed not only from the Sejm but Poland. If they think that the Sejm is not a place for a debate of experts in important issues for the majority of Poles, but it can be a place for provoking happenings organized in their way, we can only feel sorry for them….And it is impossible to discuss with them.
– They say that it is impossible to discuss with You because it is you who do not know what the ideology gender is.
– I am afraid that they do not know this ideology well enough themselves. If – as they say – the gender ideology is only promoting equal rights, non-discrimination of women, equalizing chances, then why are they trying to put this idea of equality into pre-school children’s minds in a very odd way? For example, through specially programmed exercises –plays whose purpose is to make children decide their sexes. One can assume that the gender ideology is a far-reaching psycho-social project which is very dangerous for the man. This engineering-like ideology, leading to separating the cultural-social sexes from the biological sex. This is ‘a kind of a wonderful world’ but in a different way.
– The world which we should not be afraid of. Why?
– Because, through leading to disturbance of sense of sexual identity, right equality of women does not become stronger, does not prevent their discrimination, or it does not equalize chances of women, but probably it is the other way round. Here it is all about far-going rights equality of homosexuals and homosexual couples at the cost of the traditional family, which - as it is suggested to children – is not better at all than other couples. For example, let’s look at fairly-tales recommended to children by today’s feminist and gender groups. A child’s psyche is methodically being directed towards undermining the role of the traditional family: in order to have a child, one can only find an egg and neither mum nor dad is needed, because, for example, two dads will be make it… In this world of the gender ideology, according to the recommendation of the World Health Organization, children at about the age of four should undergo a proper sexual preparation. Forgive me that, please, but it is a kind of horror!
– Supporters of the gender ideology renounce this kind of interpretation, assure that they only want happiness of all people…
– Either it is utopia or a big lie. The fact is that at present in Poland political environment favours gender ideologists who achieve their aims in this way. The Act of Sexes choices is on its good way (it was passed easily in the first reading), realizing the gender ideology. Similarly, the Act of the so-called hatred speech, that is, punishing someone for any attempt of unfavourable expressing about gender ideologists. The Act about sexual education is also pro-gender. It can be assumed that this ideology if entering into Poland with impetus.
– With the blessing of political majority?
– Unfortunately, yes. From the governing party there is a 100 per cent consent with this ideology. In my opinion, the government of Donald Tusk gives a green light for everybody going in this direction of ventures.
– There is no solution, it is going with the spirit of the modern world…
– Please, do not joke! Where does it want to go to in this way? Anyway, as it seems, this world is slowly withdrawing from the craziness of the gender ideology. For example, the Norwegians who were the pioneers in implementing this ideology, came to conclusion that they had reached the dead end; despite of enormous financial means for various gender programs, they did not manage to rebuild the society towards equalization of sex roles. The surveys show that there was not such a change according to which women would do more men’s jobs, and men – women’s jobs. In Norway imbued with the gender ideology, even mass media start laughing at it.
– Whereas in Poland the ideology is treated seriously.
– And opponents are being mocked at. It was so with the “Letter of bishops” which was not successful because it met with interest than criticism in the society. When out Team was established, the matter of the gender ideology gained publicity, authorities started speaking, there is a public discussion. For the time being, the discussion seems to be shallow, and it is difficult to gain an explicit definition of the gender ideology from it.
– Its supporters say that the gender ideology is a serious lesson, opponents – are a dangerous ideology.
– How can the gender ideology be a serious lesson, if it does not have any serious objective scientific studies? Such studies were not carried out even by the New-Zealand sociologist and sexologist John Money, recognized as the father of the gender ideology, who had discovered the cultural human sex independent from the biological sex and was the first to use the term of the gender ideology. Moreover, the feminist movement contributed to the development of the gender ideology. And today’s Polish feminists show an unusual zeal in this respect, surely because of their sense of inferior towards the world. The gender ideology in Polish means a harmful ideology.
– Proclaiming such opinions proves ignorance, defenders of the gender ideology feel offended.
– So, I will use the example of the scientific authority. Prof. Michał Kleiber says that ‘when we start transferring studies onto sex identity understood in a biological way and treating it as a kind of nature violence towards the human being, from which we must get free – which is, certainly, a danger for the family – then the matter becomes less scientific but more ideological’. In the opinion of the chief of the Polish Academy of Science, in Poland the gender ideology is being given ideological dimension, and in a hasty way.
– Will the Sejm Team ‘Stop to the gender ideology’ which is managed by you, contribute to starting an substantive social debate? For now, there are a lot of insults.
– A substantive debate is essential. Despite everything. We are even thinking about organizing a big conference of experts, many meetings in provinces.
– With the participation of both parties?
– Possibly. However, we do not want any disputes. And there have already been such attempts to play this kind of a game with us, through sending Mrs. Anna Grodzka from her party Your Movement to the works of my Team. The attempts to cause a scandal failed. Mrs. Anna Grodzka realized the fact that she cannot be a member of our Team.
– Why can’t she be if she declared her willingness to fight against the gender ideology?
– It turned out that in fact it is not so. She did not want to sign the declaration in which every member of the Team agrees not to vote for the act about deciding on sexes, for the act about the hatred speech, and in further future for the acts which would introduce the idea of homosexual marriages or adoption of children by homosexual couples. We also declared support of these legal solutions which will support the traditional model of the family.
– Will the number of the opponents of the gender ideology increase in Poland, or will it be different, that the gender ideology will overwhelm Poles’ minds, longing for modernity, dreaming about catching up with the world in every sphere of life?
– I hope that the reason and faith will win. It seems that we are on a good way. Experts of the Committee of Pedagogical Sciences of the Polish Academy of Sciences say that the program ‘a kindergarten of equality which is to present the gender ideology to pre-school children, takes away the biological sex from children’, that its authors breach the Constitution of Polish Republic (art. 48 and 53). We also have a statement of the National Section of Education and Upbringing NSZZ Solidarity which opposed to introducing harmful content promoting the gender ideology to schools and educational institutions.
– You think that this is the beginning of the social chain reaction which will end with dispelling another bad ideology?
– I hope so. This avalanche of positive events was caused by the ‘Letter of bishops’ which, despite of being disavowed by strong opinion-creating groups, informed all members of the Church about a possible and already existing danger. I am glad that our Team will deal with the work at the basis, that maybe in Poland a strong movement of opponents of this harmful phenomenon will be created.
– These are opponents of the gender ideology who bring harm to the image of Poland – say gender ideologists – because they obstruct modernity coming from the West.
– But I think that it is high time we could show others that this ‘backwardness’ of ours is not backwardness at all. Maybe others will appreciate our opposition towards the destructive ideology and will join us? It is time for our testimony.