ONLY ONE CHARRED WALL
Wiesława Lewandowska talks with a parliamentarian Antoni Macierewicz about personal resistance, drastic photos and arduous investigations which brings us closer to the truth
WIESŁAWA LEWANDOWSKA: – How do you accept the calling to making the matter of the Smoleńsk catastrophe silent, which is coming from everywhere - sometimes also from the environments close to you, and calling to end the ‘Smoleńsk Polish and Polish war’? and to stop this ‘political game’ with you in the main role?
ANTONI MACIEREWICZ: - I wonder who caused this war and who is supporting it. Who is in fact conducting a political game here. But, certainly, I accept and consider the suggestions of some environments which are persuading for the sake of the supreme good: Well, what became, became, we will never forget about this tragedy but…
– …let’s leave it alone for the sake of peace?
– I admit that I am not going to respond to this calling. Making the Smoleńsk matter silent will not do anything good, but on the contrary – honest explanation of this matter is necessary. Because no peace or cooperation can be built on a lie.
– Especially the cooperation and friendship between nations and societies?
– The truth about the Smoleńsk tragedy is not aimed against any nation or society. It is only the truth about wicked actions of particular people or groups, it is the truth about their dark business and aimed attempts in Poland. I am aware of the present unbeneficial trends, both the civilizational and moral ones, as well as the national and political ones. And I wonder if the president Lech Kaczyński lived, would such open actions be possible, which would be aiming at destroying the Christian civilisation, questioning national rights or the rights of workers, rights of family and believers. And maybe the Smoleńsk tragedy was even necessary for this destructive process to take place in an accelerated pace…?
– Are you talking about a possibility of a great conspiracy?
– I am only asking a question which everybody reasonable, responsible should ask himself…because history does not know such a tragedy – nothing has happened so till now, that at one moment so many people from the national elite were killed. The scale of this event requires peace from us, sensible reaction and also deep reflection and courage. In my opinion proving the truth about the Smoleńsk tragedy and remembrance about it is an essential condition for us to stand in defence of humanity and Christianity itself, in the society and the international community.
– But cultivating the remembrance and search for the truth in the present reality of Poland and Europe are more and more difficult tasks.
– From the beginning I was aware of it. And Jarosław Kaczyński, making a decision about entrusting this role of ‘Smoleńsk’ to me also knew that in order to play this role, a kind of experience is necessary and – first of all – determination and resistance.
– And you are a man unusually resistant?
– I have some knowledge about political mechanisms and mechanisms of functioning of special services. So, it is resistance resulting from the knowledge of functioning of special services, the knowledge of methods of functioning of these often criminal groups and environments. But like every man I also have moments of uncertainty, fear and discouragement…
– Because search for the Smoleńsk truth is getting complicated?
– Not for this reason. The truth about this tragedy lies on top. It is only covered by a layer of lies. And it is terrifying the most. But if we push aside these all pseudo-interpretations and false information, twisted explanations - it will be seen at glance.
– The work of the parliamentary team is mainly revealing the lie?
– To much extent it is, but not only. Certainly, we are carrying out various political analysis but our actions concentrate mainly on the reconstruction of the course of events, especially in the technical aspect. Experts focused on the parliamentary team in Poland and abroad are working in specialised groups, and are in a permanent contact, discussing the results of their investigations. From time to time we present partial effects of this work to the public opinion. For example, one of the most important ones has turned out recently the result of the analysis of photo documentation available descriptions of the victims’ bodies. On this basis our doctors are trying to formulate introductory opinions on the causes of the catastrophe.
– But is it possible on the basis of quite poor evidence materials?
– The team has an access to a few dozen of photos which somehow show exactly the place of finding the debris and their condition. There are also ‘later’ photos of the victims’ bodies, taken during Moscow body sections. There are also quite detailed descriptions of a few body sections carried out in Poland. Certainly, on this basis we can not draw final conclusions but it is an essential material which requires its consideration in the investigations.
– A few days ago we were shocked by publishing extremely drastic photos of the Smoleńsk catastrophe victims on internet, taken both in the place of the tragedy and during the body sections. Has the team started working on it yet?
– The case is shocking for two reasons. Firstly – because it is barbaric provocation, a humiliating game which was aimed not only against the victims’ families but all Poles. Secondly – these photos are an essential evidence material. As far as I know the Polish procurators have not had these photos so far which got secretly into the hands of Russian bloggers. There would not have been this scandal if not for the neglects of the Polish government, if the Polish authorities were acting according to the law, if they had not given the whole investigation to the Russians or not left all evidences in Russian hands. Maybe there are other evidence materials known only to Russian investigators but not known to Polish procurators…
– The parliamentary team is doing detailed analysis of the satellite photos. What results from them?
– The results of this analysis are extremely essential to describe the process of the collapse of the aeroplane. We have estimated at least a few dozen tiny elements of the aeroplane on the area of a few hundred metres away from the place of the catastrophe. A few hundred metres away from this place at least four big parts of the aeroplane were identified of the nearly total area of 4m2 .
– Weren’t the investigators of the commission of MAK and Miller engaged with such ‘trivial things’?
– They were not engaged with inconvenient details. And they were even hiding them and manipulating facts in such a way in order to prove the ‘fault of a birch tree’. For some time we have had an access to some data coming from the box of parameters of the flight( production of the company ATM) – a box of quick access which reports very exactly how particular mechanisms of the aeroplane were functioning. We know that also procurators have had this analysis for over a year and also the team of Miller had it probably. It results from our analysis that there must have been a failure of the left and then the right engine of the aeroplane on the altitude of a dozen metres before the fall of the debris of the aeroplane onto the ground. Something happened which caused that these two engines had failed and they stopped working during the flight.
– So, the hypothesis of two out-bursts is still valid?
– Yes. We still think that there were two explosions. We have the latest results of the investigations of professor Wiesław Binienda. His analysis concern not only the issue of a possible hit of the aeroplane into a birch tree. Professor Binienda, using the analogical method – the so-called method of finite elements – carried out investigations which were supposed to explain what would have happened if the aeroplane had hit into the ground in a reversed position, as the report of MAK and Miller’s want to state.
– What would have happened?
– At such a hitting about which the reports of MAK and Miller say, the aeroplane would have collapsed into three parts. At least one tenth of passengers would have had a chance of survival and the salon part of aeroplane would not have been burst into pieces. Such a big dispersal of the pieces, such a terrible destruction of the aeroplane and the bodies of the catastrophe victims would have been impossible…
– Can it be said that the people being in the salon part of the aeroplane were injured the most?
– Yes. The most devastated part of the aeroplane is just one of the salon part of the aeroplane. Only its one of the charred walls remained, the right side. Nothing more. There is no floor, no ceiling, or the left side, there are no chairs…Everything was destroyed. The people who were there – if it can be said so – suffered the most…We are analysing step by step the state of the injured bodies of the victims. These investigations are being done really in a complex way and the thesis – but not a hypothesis – that there had been an explosion, was confirmed.
– Now we can think over its causes?
– Among our experts there is a discussion about it. Some people think that the explosion might have been caused by deflagrations because of the defected electrical installation. It must be emphasized that every analysis of this kind is being investigated separately by one of the best specialists for explosions in Poland – a person working anonymously for the team.
– Many misunderstandings increased around the Moscow body sections. When the mistake of body swap, the Smoleńsk families got shocked. It can always happen – explained the governmental officials.
– Our team was aware of collusions of the Russian party and the surprising passivity of the Polish party. Therefore the fact was concealed that Polish procurators did not take part in the bodies section? Why wasn’t the bodies section allowed in Poland? Minister Jarosław Gowin, reporting the actions of the Justice Ministry onto the order of the Seym, forgot to inform that his predecessor had been in Smoleńsk on 10 April. As the news of the Polish Informative Agency says, the chief of the justice resort Krzysztof Kwiatkowski had met with the procurators of the both countries and set rules of cooperation’. Our team has a transcript of the meeting of Polish and Russian procurators which took place on 10 April 2010 between 11pm and 1 am. In the art.6 of the document of this meeting it was considered to allow Polish procurators to the bodies section, investigation and to all documents. So, why weren’t there any Polish procurators at the bodies section and the investigation?
– Today we can wonder who decided that Poles did not participate in the bodies section, although it was a duty of the procurators resulting from KPK. It is a matter which must be solved in order to repeal the presumption that we met with the deliberate subterfuge and giving the investigation into the Russian hands. Polish procurators bear responsibility for not doing the bodies section and the fact that mistakes in the bodies’ identification had been made. Whereas the General Procurator decided that it was suitable to lay responsibility onto the families of the catastrophe victims, pointing out, among with other, by name and surname the son of Anna Walentynowicz. It is cynicism and cruelty with which we have not met with so far. How could it be allowed for!
– There is the question ‘why?’ more and more frequently. Why?
– Because time came for specific answers. Therefore the Polish government, for example, rejected an offer of Polish funeral enterprisers proposing a free respectful funeral of all the catastrophe victims? The Ministry of National Defence rejected this offer and had funerals organized by the former agent of the Military Inner Service for gigantic amount of money. Or is it so that the whole Smoleńsk matter was given to the Russians and the agency? Is it that true?
– Two years ago it was decided that it was not worth teasing the poor Polish –Russian relations, that we must trust the Russians…
– And Mr. Tomasz Turowski said on the Russian radio that the polish-Russian cooperation would grow from this blood…It is worth reminding that the official of the government of Donald Tusk were the first to say about the Russian fault. The statement of Bogdan Kilcha is significant, which on 22 April 2012 in his interview with Edmund Klich stated that it resulted from the report presented to him that the Russians bear responsibility. And next both men were wondering for two hours hot to conceal this report, what to do, not to let the message reach to the public opinion, that it results from the investigations of Polish experts that the Russians bear responsibility for this tragedy.
– Do the investigations of the parliamentary team done so far point out to the Russian fault?
– No, we do not state it, although we are accused of blaming mainly the Russian party with responsibility for the Smoleńsk tragedy. We still do not know who or what caused this catastrophe. We only know that it was not an ordinary accident and it was not president Lech Kaczyński nor the Polish general, nor Polish pilots to be blamed. The person who caused it is responsible for the explosion of the aeroplane in air.
– Are we already so close to learn about the whole truth about the Smoleńsk catastrophe?
– Closer and closer….As far as the technical aspects of events is concerned, we really know a lot. We definitely know that the collapse of the aeroplane was caused by the explosion. We do not only know the causes of the explosion – was it a technical failure or deliberate action from outside. In the case of the latter possibility we should consider various scenarios.
– Is it possible to explain everything, considering all difficulties and restrictions of access to evidences?
– Yes, certainly! It is possible to explain. In laboratories outside Poland the parts of the aeroplane are already being investigated, samples of clothes of the victims and other materials which were in the Tu-154 M. We are waiting for the results patiently.